update: good, bad, and stuff

[danaeris]

Good: Those press briefings are not due Thursday after all, so I can breathe. But, I should still get my butt moving on them.

Bad: My throat is just a little sore, which means I'm coming down with something.

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Today I voted. I voted NDP. I might have voted Liberal given that my sympathies are somewhere between NDP and Liberal, but my riding is an NDP stronghold, and so I voted NDP with a clear conscience.

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Social last night went fabulously, and I had a blast. I think we had about 25 people, but I lost count. There was awkwardness; Randy showed up and was immediately cornered by P, who did an amazing job throughout the evening of talking to Randy about Stuff. He came over to apologize to the woman he touched without permission, but his apology was inadequate in my opinion, and left all of the women I spoke with about it uncomfortable around him. For the first time, the social gender-segregated, because the women wanted to stay away from him, and the men were deliberately surrounding him. But, there were no further actual incidents, I suppose. So, yeah.

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European restaurant etiquette

OK, so, Randy likes to raise his hand in the air and snap his fingers to get the waitress' attention. I'm fairly confident this is considered icky throughout North America. What about in Europe, or Pakistan? He is from Pakistan, and spent some time in Germany.

Comments

[cortneyofeden.livejournal.com]

I don't know the exact etiquette in Germany, but there's definitely something different which ef2p and I were missing there about restaurant etiquette. Here, I expect my bill to arrive after we've finished eating. If a waiter/waitress asks if I want dessert and I say no thanks, I expect the bill to arrive shortly after that.

When in Germany, there were a couple of times we ended up sitting there waiting...and waiting...and waiting for the check. Once we'd said we didn't need anything else, it would be almost impossible to get the waitstaff's attention. I think we had to revert to waving them over.

So quite possibly in that case his lack of US restaurant social skills may be explained. He still seems slimy in his social interactions (and perhaps another week someone could gently explain to him that we don't snap at waiters here unless we're purposely being rude) re: inappropriate suggestions and touching. But in this case, it may just be European etiquette being strong, and him being enough of a clueless jerk to realize that he's being rude by this culture's standards and need a gentle prodding.

[ebenezer.livejournal.com]

While I agree that the snapping is definitely considered condescension in the US, your suggestion that you can just "expect" your bill to arrive is off the mark. The protocol in the US (at least in the northeast, upon which my experience is based) is that you must request the bill in order for it to arrive. We expect severs at a diner to deliver the bill pre-emptively, but that is because our culture considers the high-turnover property of diners to be a feature. If a server at a restaurant with any class were to deliver the bill pre-emptively, we would consider it rude.

At many restaurants this is implemented by the server asking whether we would like any additional service ("Would you like anything more?") thus providing an opportunity for us to request the bill ("Just the cheque when you get a chance would be fine."). In some cases, the server may not provide very many of these opportunities (perhaps with the intent to encourage patrons to relax and not feel pressured to pay up and leave), in which case it becomes the responsibility of patrons to get the server's attention.

It is considered perfectly reasonable for a patron to raise his or her hand provided that it is clear that the patron is making a reasonable effort to flag down the correct server. Once the patron has the server's attention, there are several accepted gestures that the patron may use to signal the request for the bill, including scribbling motions, check-mark motions, and nodding.

[cortneyofeden.livejournal.com]

Once I've told a waiter/waitress that I won't be needing anything else, they usually then will bring the check. Sometimes I'll explicitly ask for it when saying that's all, but this is far from always.

There are motions that are used, and I think that many of them are universal. Finger snapping, however, is a behavior that I find rude in the context of American culture, just as I'd also find effectively shouting down a passing waiter to be somewhat faux pas.

My experience is from living in the east, the midwest, and out west, so I don't think they're regional differences (since goodness knows I generally felt like I was in a different world while living in the midwest).

[plymouth.livejournal.com]

If a server at a restaurant with any class were to deliver the bill pre-emptively, we would consider it rude.

I've been in plenty of places, from basic diners to at least moderately classy places (can't say much about the super expensive places since I don't eat at those often and my memory is spotty) where the waitperson drops off the bill with a "stay as long as you like" comment. Which I find optimal since then I know we're not being kicked out but that the moment we decide we're ready to go we can with no extra fuss (at least if we're paying cash).

[cos]

The only time I've seen that sort of attitude to waiters/waitresses was at a posh Boston restuarant. The patron in question looked wealthy, just like most everyone else there. I guessed it must be an upper class thing, but it still seemed very rude.

[futabachan.livejournal.com]

I had a fabulous time last night, and feel silly for not having made it there sooner....

[danaeris.livejournal.com]

Silly monkey! Come out and play some more! *bounce*

I'm glad you had so much fun in spite of all the weirdnesses. :)

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

Yay voting!

My experience in European restaurants, though I was rarely the one footing the bill, is that they expect you to take hours and hours over a meal. Often the bill is settled either beforehand, if there's a large group, or as the patrons walk out the door, without a bill necessarily being brought to the table. The speed with which restaurants expect to turn over tables in North America is unmatched anywhere else that I'm aware of.

I don't recall anyone ever snapping their fingers to get a server's attention, and I do not do that myself. It may be culturally appropriate in Pakistan, but I don't think it is in Germany. It's certainly not in Eastern France or Switzerland.

[jackspryte.livejournal.com]

Dining Etiquette in Germany

* It is good etiquette to remain standing until shown where to sit.

* Table manners are continental - fork in left hand and knife in right.

* Do not begin eating until the host signals to do so.

* It is bad etiquette to rest elbows on the table.

* Try and cut food with the fork as it compliments the cook by showing it is tender.

* Everything should be eaten on the plate.

* Indicate you have finished by lying the fork and knife parallel across the right hand side of the plate.
Nothing I could find about "snapping" but general north american etiquette sites claim that this is very rude.

[ex-sonjaaa.livejournal.com]

I've lived for a year in Germany. I don't remember seeing people snapping fingers at waitors. Never been to Pakistan. :)