POLY SOCIAL: Bad news

[danaeris]

Dear Toronto Poly folk,

I have good news and bad news. The good news is that the social is still going strong; we had a turnout of 15 this week (the week before Christmas, I count that as a success), including four new faces.

The bad news is that we were informed that our current location is closing January 15 and being torn down; the block is being made into condominiums. They will be re-opening at King and Bathurst, but I for one do not think that location is good enough, nor is their food good enough, to warrant staying with them.

I am writing to solicit discussion on what you want in a social venue, as well as suggestions for venue locations. Here's what P and I have looked for in a venue in the past:

1. Affordable food. Was the current location affordable enough for most of you?


2. Value in food. I didn't think the current location's food was good enough for the price.


3. A menu and atmosphere friendly to the drop-in customer who does not want dinner (ie. only a drink).


4. Lounge area that lends itself to a social.


5. Lounge area that can be reserved.


6. A venue that owns high chairs so that couples with toddlers can attend (the current location could not handle this)


7. A venue that is not uptight about the social being an "alternative lifestyle" social.


8. Most important of all: location. Being at the nexus of the subway lines, so, being walking distance from St. George, Spadina, or Yonge station. I consider it essential for the location to be easy for people to get to, because people are lazy, and will not regularly attend something that is tough to get to.

So. What did you love about the current location, and what did you hate?
And, any suggestions for a new location? P has done some scouting and will negotiate with any potential venues, so much thanks to him.

Comments

[thespian.livejournal.com]

I'm curious why King & Bathurst isn't 'good enough'? I know that you're a bit of a bigot (that's a joke) on the 'walk to the subway' thing, but it's easy on the streetcars (about 5m from Bathurst or St. Andrew), and might be closer to a lot of people's workplaces (judging from the people who I've been told are attending, which I know is an issue).

I know I'm a lot more likely to attend if it's held at King & Bathurst than I am now; anywhere ON the subway is actually harder for me to get to and yeah, I'm lazy and haven't attended in part because of that.

Perhaps you might want to start this with 'do you think that's a bad location? How hard is it for you to get to?' instead of what I perceive as an assumption that everyone is inconvenienced by the same things that inconvenience you.

I'm with you.

[freefloat.livejournal.com]

King and Bathurst is walking distance from my workplace as well, and I can think of at least one other poly person who actually lives right downtown not far from there.

Poll time?

Re: I'm with you.

[thespian.livejournal.com]

(complete aside: and even if you switch places, Monday is always wing night at the Wheat Sheaf ;-) )

Re: I'm with you.

[danaeris.livejournal.com]

(1) I'm soliciting venue suggestions so that we can have a poll. Suggest venues, wherever they may be, and P will check them out, and if they meet most of the qualifications, they'll be on the poll.
(2) There are two possible cases for any given location and any given attendee.

The first is that they happen to either live or work right near the venue, in which case they will likely attend frequently. These, however, are flukes. Just like Monday is convenient for some and not for others and any day of the week will garner a different crowd schedule wise, the location will be super convenient to some and not to others, and will garner a different crowd location wise. There's nothing we can do about this factor, especially considering that if we choose the location for people's current homes and jobs, the people might move or get different jobs. This is a losing way to address the problem, and encourages cliques. It is also not helpful to established, house-owning families who more often than not do not live in central locations, and will get screwed by this policy.

The second case is that the potential attendee lives somewhere random, in which case they will only attend frequently if the venue is easy to get to. However, Toronto is a massive city, and getting from point A to B is difficult. The fastest way on long hauls is the subway (this is an indisputable fact; I've timed subway vs. parallel streetcar, and subway is in fact, literally, faster; for instance, if I lived at Dundas and ____, it is faster to take the bus up _____ and the subway across to Dundas West than it is to catch the Dundas streetcar and take it directly to Dundas West). So, from most locations in Toronto, a location on the subway is in fact more convenient, and doubly so if it is walking distance to BOTH subways. While current attendees may mostly live downtown, we want to be able to attract the most number of poly attendees, and not just the current crowd. For that we need a location that is convenient no matter where you live.

Anyhow, for a while now I've been tempted to do a survey asking people where they live and/or work, to get an idea of where poly folk are concentrated in TO. I'm not sure if people would be uncomfortable filling something like that out, but it would be interesting even if we didn't use the info.

Re: I'm with you.

[thespian.livejournal.com]

I'm not meaning to be picking (honest! :-) ). I think you should find out what people consider 'convenient'. I actually consider 'trip that I need to transfer the least for' to be the most convenient for me; I'll spend an extra 10m in travel if I don't have to switch, especially if I don't have to switch levels (I'm more likely to want to stay on the subway, or stay on the streetcar/bus routes, if given a choice, then to take the fastest way but have to switch).

I'm actually going to suggest, while looking for places, that you also look away from the main intersections there, because I think you might find what you want in places where you'll have a little more negotiating power. Here in Parkdale (on Queen), there's a little cafe that exists just to serve the lunch crowd. It closes at 5, *but* it opens for no cost to the group for the Parkdale Green Party at night, since they bring 15 people in and they each spend $5-10 apiece. It might be easier to get the sort of place where you can have a private meeting in a public space if you move away from the core a little - checking out places that will be grateful for 15 people at night instead of irritated by them taking space. Doesn't necessarily mean moving off the subway, but might mean moving away from being smack dab in the middle.

Re: I'm with you.

[danaeris.livejournal.com]

I'm not meaning to be picking (honest! :-) ).

Heh. See next entry; I'm just grumpy today and it's none of your doing.

As for the power thing of being off the beaten path... you have a point, to some extent, but on the other hand, Bedford rarely had a problem accomodating us, gave us separate bills, etc. They were really great to us until this happened.

I actually was at C'est What near Union station the other day, thinking what a great venue it would be for the social, but that the location was no good. But now I'm wondering if there's value to being near Union station so that it is more accessible for people from out of town taking GO. Anyway, if you're particularly interested, check out the location survey draft I put in the next entry.

Re: I'm with you.

[thespian.livejournal.com]

You might also want to post to the Toronto LJ, without mentioning what it's for, that you're looking for a good pub/restaurant with a private or semi-private room. I know I was recently surprised to find out that a pub I go to has a private room upstairs in the back, because the room is *so* private I had no idea it existed (the place is closing or I'd suggest it; it's 2 blocks from St. George). So there's always the chance of finding a hidden treasure by calling upon the group knowledge.

Re: I'm with you.

[danaeris.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. I know I and a number of other people are dissatisfied with the quality of the food, the seating (springs up the ass, anyone?), and the lack of high chairs for toddlers, at the Bedford. The latter two might be fixed at the new location, but the former probably won't be.

We also don't know what the layout will be or when the new location is opening; I got the impression that the new location will NOT be opening the moment this one is closed.

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

You could always just move from the Bedford Ballroom to the Bedford Academy, just down the road.

Or the Duke of York, which is across the street from the above.

[jackspryte.livejournal.com]

The most important for me (in decending order of importance).

1) A venue that is not uptight about the social being an "alternative lifestyle" social.
2) Lounge area that lends itself to a social.
3) Lounge area that can be reserved. (i can get there early and reserve it myself on some days)
4) Location (I can go out of my way because I don't work on Mondays..I have time)
5) Affordable food. Was the current location affordable enough for most of you?
6) A menu and atmosphere friendly to the drop-in customer who does not want dinner (ie. only a drink).
7) Value in food. I didn't think the current location's food was good enough for the price.
8) A venue that owns high chairs so that couples with toddlers can attend (the current location could not handle this)

I like the round-about lounge set-up as well. I think a loounge is good but only if it's together in one area and large. Some places have small "scattered" lounges.

Couches good, wood chairs bad!

JMHO