Clarifications

[danaeris]

I believe that as long as you believe in your gut that life should have meaning (and most people are indoctrinated in their guts to feel that way), there will be a gap in your life that makes you sad or feel unfulfilled.

There are two ways to deal with this.
(1) Have faith in something. People. Humans. A deity. A generic spirituality. Something which implies that there is more than is obvious to the eyes.
(2) Realize that this whole "meaning" thing is a crock of shit. Realize it deep down inside; throw off the conditioning. Become content to enjoy your life from day to day and get by.

I'm a big fan of both, I think.

Some people have said to me since I posted the previous entry that there are faithless people who desire and find meaning in life. This is the dubious part of my argument, in fact. I think that those people are not actually materialists. They are attributing some extra 'value' to something beyond its physical value in order to fill the void which a lack of meaning would leave.

So in case you were wondering, I'm defining meaning in these discussions as something that fills the void that people are referring to when they search for meaning in their life. Kinda circular, but I think most people will know what I mean.

Watch this space for more clarifications. :)

Comments

[artistic-chaos.livejournal.com]

I kept trying to reply to your last post, but the post comment page kept stopping loading before it loaded the little box, so I'm responding here.'

There is a book called "quarterlife crisis: the unique challenges of life in your twenties" that basically says what the first half of your post said. once out of school, people tend to go "shit, what now?" and then get depressed and stuff.

I think at some point they offer suggestions for overcoming this, but I haven't gotten around to finishing that book yet :)

What does faith give you?

[billporn.livejournal.com]

Why bother?

Faith hasn't helped me before. It certainly isn't helping me now.

I had faith a long time ago, then I came to my senses. As in the five of them.

I think the only thing you can trust and have faith in is yourself.

And for your own sake, don't have faith in people. They'll let you down.

Re: What does faith give you?

[adoor.livejournal.com]

oh, i don't know. i have faith in people, meaning i believe in them, but i don't particularly believe anything about them. i pretty much just expect 'em to be human, from appalling evil to astonishing grace, with a lot of pretty subtle moments in between. i haven't been let down yet.

Randomly gliding by again

[lunaticsx.livejournal.com]

I sought "the meaning of life." I found that "life exists to continue to exist." That's neither faith, nor an absence of meaning.

It can be taken many ways, but the way I take it is: An inanimate object does nothing to preserve its existence. Its atoms and molecules are held together by a variety of forces, but none of them are "active."

Living organisims, on the other hand, are differentiated by the active efforts of their component parts to remain a cohesive whole. It's intrinsic, like a fractal pattern, all the way up and down from the greater whole to the smallest recognizable "living" component.

The fundamental "meaning," therefore, for any living organisim is to BE. Thus, one's greatest/most fulfilling/noble/etc. drive should be to be the best example of who/what you are as you can be. An extension of this is to expand those active efforts of your own organisim to "live" and "continue to be" to the rest of the members of your species and on to the overall existence of life itself in your greater environment (planet). Think of zooming out even farther in the fractal pattern.

I think faith comes from losing touch with this intrinsic nature of life. (Other problems come from not recognizing the balance desired/required of that nature.)

Finally, to reply to a previous poster, I don't think you actually can have faith in yourself. Only belief. Having faith would imply that you can't provide proof to yourself, when ultimately in the end you are the sole source of incontrovertible "self proof." Others may influence you, but it's your own decision in the end.

Could you imagine someone saying "I don't have faith in myself, I'm self-agnostic"? It's non-sensical.

-= Lunatic

Re: Randomly gliding by again

[danaeris.livejournal.com]

In some ways, I think that your response is the best attempt at a counter proof I've seen so far. I say attempt not because I'm convinced it failed, but because I'm not completely sold on either side.

I do agree with you that life exists in order to continue to exist. I also am similar to you in that one of the ways I bring meaning to my life is by trying to be as much myself as I can.
I am not convinced, however, that it follows that because life exists in order to continue existing, that we should make an effort to be the most of ourselves, and that that is the meaning or point of life. I think it follows that the point of life is to breed and perpetuate our genes, to survive as long as possible so that as much breeding can be accomplished, etc. But the things we identify as our personalities are largely irrelevant to this goal. While it is relevant to be the best Human you can be, it is difficult to determine what is "Best"---it is a matter of opinion, unfortunately.

I also think there is a semantic difference between what you are defining as "Meaning" and what I am defining as "meaning."
I was defining it as a gap people feel in their lives... you were being much more literal. Strangely, a lot of people find it depressing to realize that there is no point to life other than life. Until they make the leap of thought that leads to your and my conclusion, that the way to bring meaning to their life is to be as much themselves and be the best they can be. Then, suddenly, they have a long term goal. Life has meaning. Woohoo.

I don't know. I'm definitely babbling, but it seems to me that the leap of thought which leads to this 'meaning' requires faith or belief in something that doesn't necessarily follow logically... after all, if you're trying to become more of your personality, then what makes you so sure that personality is the only one you could have, or the right one for you?

I guess that's all for now!

[earthdog.livejournal.com]

I want to say that I believe number 1, but I live my life as if number 2 is true. I think that bothers me sometimes. What does it mean when there is a gap between what you live and what you believe?

[friode.livejournal.com]

I think that one can feel that life has meaning, but it is not terribly likely that one will happen upon a life that has meaning.

I think that if one is spending one's time on work that one truely believes is worthwhile, that this will give one a sense that life has meaning. It is, unfortunately, very difficult in general to find a job which one truely believes would still be worth doing if the person was indendently wealthy, and looking for something valuable to do with their time.

I think that relationships with other human beings may also be able to give one a sense that life has meaning, but I've only ever seen glimpses of this in my own experience.