Too good to be true? Hoodia

[danaeris]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2947810.stm (from 2003)
and
http://www.hoodia-dietpills.com/

interesting... more research forthcoming.

Edit, courtesy of pyat
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/18/60minutes/main656458.shtml

EDIT:
Broken link fixed

EDIT:
http://www.phytopharm.co.uk/hoodia_faq.html (phytopharm is the british pharmaceuticals company which is now farming hoodia, conducting studies, and hopefully will be bringing an effective product to market in the next three years)

EDIT:
http://www.pumpedmag.com/articles/spring05/04text.htm
According to this article, the phytopharm study has not been peer reviewed (guess you were right about that one, admiralthrawn!) Or at least, it hadn't been as of the publication of this article, which is relatively recent.

Comments

[otheronetruegod.livejournal.com]

Anything that claims to help you lose weight is going to be too good to be true. The most effective method of weight loss is the "eat less, move more" diet. It's safe and makes you healthier.

Don't get trapped into fad diets, pills or rip-off scams, no matter how many people tell you "it worked for me!" ... Anecdotal evidence is not the same as real evidence. :-)

Me, I cut most refined sugar out of my diet (no pop, no chocolate bars, fewer deserts) and increased my water intake and fruits and veggies, and started going to the gym and using the eliptical for 20 mins three or four times a week. I lost 25 pounds in about 3 months.

If I could stop eating McDonalds and Pizza, I could probably lose another 25. :-/

[danaeris.livejournal.com]

To be taken not in a hostile fashion, but more in an intellectual fashion:
Your assertions assume that science will never reach a useful understanding of how our metabolisms function and how we can influence them if desired. How is that less illogical than believing the claims like those made on the second website's link?

I haven't had time to do much research on this topic, but I prefer to reserve full judgement until I have more information: a good look at the studies which have been done and who has done them, for instance. The only thing I'm certain of based on information pyat has turned up is that what is being offered at the second link is crap.

[otheronetruegod.livejournal.com]

No, they merely assume that /current/ science doesn't offer a better way.

Unless I see serious, published, peer-reviewed studies, I'd be highly skeptical of anything that claims to help me lose weight that doesn't involve eating smarter and moving more.

It would be nice, man, would it ever! :-)

[pyat.livejournal.com]

While it seems fairly certain that hoodia has the properties claimed for it, the sales page just looks suspect to me. The company is selling some bogus products on its other pages.

For example:
...taking just 2 Slenderizing capsules twice daily work to unclog the pathways of years of deadly toxins and material build-up obstructing the flow of fat out of the body.

That sounds kinda questionable.

There are also some other worrisome points on the other pages. From the FAQ:
As acknowledgment to its safety Hoodia is classified as food in South Africa, NOT a drug.

It could also mean that the South African government doesn't consider it effective at all. The FDA considers all herbal remedies "foods."

Other ingredients provide an accumulative thermogenic and synergistic effect that help achieve maximum fat loss and increased energy levels (without jitters).

Thermogenic diet remedies claim to reduce weight by raising body temperature, and have not been proven to work. From the National Council Against Health Fraud page - "The NCAHF advises consumers to avoid the use of (thermogenic) products

From the research page:
Other ingredients: Cellulose and silica

Cellulose is used as a binding agent in many kinds of pills - however, it's also commonly used by naturopathic companies to bulk up the tiny amounts of actual active agent in their diluted pills.

The lab test seems to conclusively prove that hoodia powder is being used to make the product, and I assume it's a true report. I do wonder about their claim that "...upon arrival every shipment of Hoodia is sent to a US based independent lab where it undergoes high performance thin layer liquid chromatography (HPTLC) analysis. Do they mean the entire shipment? Because the lab report says the sample they recieved was a 20 gram "medium zip lock bag."

The worst thing is that the site is claiming their product was featured on 60 Minutes, and quotes a host as saying it works. However, this seems to have been taken out of context. (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/18/60minutes/main656458.shtml)

That article also mentions that all the hoodia remedies tested by the company that conducted the original trials contain 0.01% and 0.1% of the claimed dosage and notes that it is actually illegal for any other company to sell the plant as a weight loss product.

[danaeris.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the 60 minutes link. I'll take a look at it more closely.

[badoingdoing.livejournal.com]

The first link doesn't work for me.

The second seems to mostly describe a similar set of effects to many stimulants. Compare: erowid amphetamine effects page

The second site also seems to subscribe to the "it's natural, that must mean it's better" fallacy. Also, the "it's natural, that must mean it's not a drug" fallacy. I don't know your personal definition of drug, but to me, a stimulant is a drug whether the company selling it calls it a drug and has done clinical trials, or calls it a non-drug-no-really dietary suppliment and waves around some pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.

Unfortunately, erowid doesn't seem to have much information on Hoodia. Cactuses have been known to contain phenethylamines (mescaline!), so I wouldn't be suprized if the active ingredient fell under that category. Pending further information, I'd probably just treat it as "sorta like amphetamine, only less tested" for decision-making purpouses.

[danaeris.livejournal.com]

Check out the 60 minute article Pyat posted. It should give you the information that the broken BBC link was missing.

BS-detector

[admiralthrawn.livejournal.com]

The BBC link appears to be broken (gives me a 404 not found).

The other page sets off a lot of my BS alarms; I certainly wish it were true, I'd love to have something to kill off my appetite so I could lose weight, but anything from "Natural Holistics Research" sets off an alarm, since "holistics" almost always means "we don't like science". And I have to wonder about a pill that goes to great lengths to mention that it is "100% Vegetarian", and has "no synthetic agents" -- that's totally irrelevant to the safety or effectiveness, and if someone is a sufficiently hardcore vegetarian that they care about their pills, it's pretty unlikely that they need weight-loss pills. And they casually mention that it's an aphrodisiac, and cure hangovers too -- random unsubstantiated claims unrelated to the core purpose are usually a sign of badness as well.

It's possible there's something here, and it's just the marketing department run amok. But personally, I'd hold off being excited until their "millions of dollars spent on research" turned into at least one peer reviewed study; it shouldn't be hard to throw some of this stuff at mice and see what happens in a properly controlled lab setting. Serious human-research takes forever, of course, but the initial trials can be fairly quick.

Re: BS-detector

[danaeris.livejournal.com]

There has been a peer reviewed study. It's just that you couldn't read about it because the first link was broken. Check out the new one from 60 minutes.

Re: BS-detector

[danaeris.livejournal.com]

I take it back... the phytopharm study is looking like it isn't peer reviewed after all. See above links for details (revised post)

[funos.livejournal.com]

interesting indeed (but I'll go with pyat: that second page fires off every bozo alarm in my head.)

I would imagine its best use would be for an easy day of fasting, or at some continuous low dosage to reduce appetite, else it's chemically induced starvation, which is deleterious to the body.

[danaeris.livejournal.com]

That might be. But, if it eliminates appetite but doesn't prevent us from eating, than while on it a person could eat a completely healthy, regulated diet without any concern about overeating. It could make dieting effortless, although eating would become an onerous task while on it.

It's also unclear what smaller doses would do.

[plymouth.livejournal.com]

"It has no known side-effects, and contains a molecule that fools your brain into believing you are full."

If it didn't fool my brain into thinking I had a normal blood sugar level it wouldn't work. I eat usually because my blood sugar is dropping rather than because I feel "hungry". All those fake sugars they keep coming out with taste sweet but they don't fool my blood and I still sugar-crash. Stupid body.

[danaeris.livejournal.com]

Based on my understanding, it might still work on you. Apparently there's a receptor in your hypothalamus which measures your bloodsugar levels. When the levels are high enough, it fires neurons to indicate that you're full. Because p57, the molecule hoodia contains, is about 10,000 times more active than normal blood sugar, the moment it gets there, your body begins to think that its blood sugar is adequate.

Diet foods like aspartame and splenday fool your tastebuds into thinking you're consuming something tasty, but it doesn't fool you into thinking you're full. Hoodia reportedly can be very bitter (some species of it anyway), and fools your brain into thinking you're full.

I guess it depends on what causes your low blood sugar symptoms. If they are controlled by the same neurons, then yes, hoodia will suppress that (although you'll still starve if you don't eat!).

[plymouth.livejournal.com]

I'm not exactly sure what the underlying cause is but I do actually have an appointment to see my doctor about it (though it's not until June 1 - yay HMOs) because it seems excessive to me. If I don't eat about every 4 hours (though ideally I would eat every 3) I get headaches and shaky and have trouble concentrating. This often has no relation as to whether my stomach feels full. In fact sometimes I specifically don't feel hungry and don't want food but eating is the only way to make the headache and the shakiness go away. It's really annoying. People have suggested I may have hypoglycemia or an endocrine disorder that causes me to produce too much insulin.