That age thing
Jul. 8th, 2003 12:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
danaerisToday on a list I'm on someone commented that they should name something Atari because no one under 25 would recognize it and wouldn't that be cool.
It really kind of pissed me off. I know I'm oversensitive about the age thing, but it frustrates me. Age does matter, but I wish it didn't.
First, to set the record straight, I'm 22 and I DO know what Atari is. I think I may have even played on it, but my childhood memories have always been kinda vague and foggy. Second of all, I fairly sincerely resent the implication of, "wouldn't it be cool to exclude those under 25" even though the person probably didn't mean it that way.
But the age thing is a hairy conundrum. I admit, in my social circles I tend to have a preference for younger people and prettier people. I'm even in some groups that exclude older people (like GGPET sort of does), where older is flexible but probably starts somewhere in the 40s (though most people are between 18 and 35ish).
Is that wrong? I'm trying to figure out if that's hypocritical. I don't think so. I mean, its one thing to exclude older people because you don't find them attractive and thus don't want to scene with them or date them. Similarly, lots of older people exclude younger people because they feel uncomfortable dating them for a variety of reasons. What I object to is an attitude of uniform exclusion or stereotype. Some older people are so cool that they become attractive. Some older people are eternally young in their hearts and tons more fun to hang out with than some people my age. Some younger people are fluff bunnies or vapid or immature. Some aren't, and I'd argue that I'm one of the ones who isn't.
I guess its the reasons that make it ok or not. I don't mind being excluded because I can't relate to the experiences a 50 or 60 year old person has gone through. I can't. I wasn't there. So a person in that age range wanting to spend time with people their age for that reason is quite understandable. But a person that age excluding me because I must be immature and have little of worth to say is obnoxious.
I recently ran into someone who had the opposite of my complex. I have a serious fear of being patronized and condescended to, in part because I was a younger child, in part because I hang out with people older than me. I'm 22. My primary is 33. Most of my friends are in their late 20s-early 30s. People often are like, "We do this because you remind us of how we were when we were your age" and that PISSES ME OFF a lot. It makes me all twitchy. I HATE being treated differently because I'm young and 'still learning' and 'still growing' etc. We're all still learning and growing, and I've learned lessons you haven't, and you've learned lessons I have. Everyone who knows me well seems to think that I can keep up with them...
Anyway this woman I met has the opposite age complex (sort of), the "I used to be young and cute, and now I'm older and no one will want me" complex. The funny thing is that with the right personality, she'd be quite attractive. She isn't that old. She should talk to my old housemate Kat, who is over 50 and still has numerous lovers in their early 30s. She's beautiful and she knows it. Well, ok, I think she has serious age issues too, but she subsumes them and has lovers and friends of all ages anyway. She doesn't wear her age issues on her forehead like a big neon sign.
Hm. I wonder if I wear my age issues on my forehead like a big neon sign.
What it comes down to is I don't feel like I'm 22. I don't feel like I'm any age. I feel like I'm me. When I'm with![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
unseelie, I feel the age gap in the way he has had more experiences, more lovers, etc. I feel it in spiritual and pagan things (because he's had more opportunity to explore those things) and in kinky explorational things (that's not a word). But I don't find it in ability to support and help each other. I don't find it in every day interactions, in ability to cope with the world and with each other. Those places where it does show up, it is a small gap, certainly not 11 years if years mean as much as people claim.
I'm babbling, so I think I'll go get lunch. I'd love to hear peoples thoughts on all this though. And I don't *think* I'm emotionally vulnerable about this. And if I am I'll try to be a good girl and stay calm. :)
It really kind of pissed me off. I know I'm oversensitive about the age thing, but it frustrates me. Age does matter, but I wish it didn't.
First, to set the record straight, I'm 22 and I DO know what Atari is. I think I may have even played on it, but my childhood memories have always been kinda vague and foggy. Second of all, I fairly sincerely resent the implication of, "wouldn't it be cool to exclude those under 25" even though the person probably didn't mean it that way.
But the age thing is a hairy conundrum. I admit, in my social circles I tend to have a preference for younger people and prettier people. I'm even in some groups that exclude older people (like GGPET sort of does), where older is flexible but probably starts somewhere in the 40s (though most people are between 18 and 35ish).
Is that wrong? I'm trying to figure out if that's hypocritical. I don't think so. I mean, its one thing to exclude older people because you don't find them attractive and thus don't want to scene with them or date them. Similarly, lots of older people exclude younger people because they feel uncomfortable dating them for a variety of reasons. What I object to is an attitude of uniform exclusion or stereotype. Some older people are so cool that they become attractive. Some older people are eternally young in their hearts and tons more fun to hang out with than some people my age. Some younger people are fluff bunnies or vapid or immature. Some aren't, and I'd argue that I'm one of the ones who isn't.
I guess its the reasons that make it ok or not. I don't mind being excluded because I can't relate to the experiences a 50 or 60 year old person has gone through. I can't. I wasn't there. So a person in that age range wanting to spend time with people their age for that reason is quite understandable. But a person that age excluding me because I must be immature and have little of worth to say is obnoxious.
I recently ran into someone who had the opposite of my complex. I have a serious fear of being patronized and condescended to, in part because I was a younger child, in part because I hang out with people older than me. I'm 22. My primary is 33. Most of my friends are in their late 20s-early 30s. People often are like, "We do this because you remind us of how we were when we were your age" and that PISSES ME OFF a lot. It makes me all twitchy. I HATE being treated differently because I'm young and 'still learning' and 'still growing' etc. We're all still learning and growing, and I've learned lessons you haven't, and you've learned lessons I have. Everyone who knows me well seems to think that I can keep up with them...
Anyway this woman I met has the opposite age complex (sort of), the "I used to be young and cute, and now I'm older and no one will want me" complex. The funny thing is that with the right personality, she'd be quite attractive. She isn't that old. She should talk to my old housemate Kat, who is over 50 and still has numerous lovers in their early 30s. She's beautiful and she knows it. Well, ok, I think she has serious age issues too, but she subsumes them and has lovers and friends of all ages anyway. She doesn't wear her age issues on her forehead like a big neon sign.
Hm. I wonder if I wear my age issues on my forehead like a big neon sign.
What it comes down to is I don't feel like I'm 22. I don't feel like I'm any age. I feel like I'm me. When I'm with
unseelie, I feel the age gap in the way he has had more experiences, more lovers, etc. I feel it in spiritual and pagan things (because he's had more opportunity to explore those things) and in kinky explorational things (that's not a word). But I don't find it in ability to support and help each other. I don't find it in every day interactions, in ability to cope with the world and with each other. Those places where it does show up, it is a small gap, certainly not 11 years if years mean as much as people claim.I'm babbling, so I think I'll go get lunch. I'd love to hear peoples thoughts on all this though. And I don't *think* I'm emotionally vulnerable about this. And if I am I'll try to be a good girl and stay calm. :)
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-07-08 01:38 pm (UTC)A little brain-dump on the subject du jour
Date: 2003-07-08 02:30 pm (UTC)just manifest themselves in pop culture disconnects. But that's
merely the trappings and circumstances of life; I don't think it's
a good idea to confuse it with life itself.
I think you can say that *ON AVERAGE*, a person from an age group 10
years older has "more seasoning" than one 10 years younger, but there
will always be individuals who buck the aggregate trends ("Lies,
damned lies, and statistics," y'know.), so you can't say, "older
people are more growthfulified," and have it be a valid blanket
statement.
I think what it might be (noodling out loud, here): experience in
general *isn't* given out "for free" with age, but older people have
had more opportunity to partake of it...? Maybe this is just a
rephrasing of what you said up there in the penultimate paragraph,
OTOH.
Z
P.S.: True Story to do with age: in Feb of 2002, I messed around
with two different (both quite lovely in their own respective ways)
women, in the space of under a week (don't cry for me, Argentina).
The first one has a daughter who is older than the second. I guess
my point (other than boasting, I swear!) is that I like to think of
myself as flexible. %-}
no subject
Date: 2003-07-08 02:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-07-08 03:23 pm (UTC)But really, this society punishes those who are older in many ways. They are barraged by a constant flow of images telling them how they can hide their age or the signs of aging. Just the cultural standard of it being impolite to ask someone their age fuels the shame of aging. When people are made to feel like they should be ashamed of their age, they often take it out on younger people, because it gives them a vague sense of superiority, i.e. "you may be younger and prettier than me but I'm older and more knowledgeable than you."
This is why I will never lie about my age, I would rather scream it from the rooftops. Eleanor Roosevelt said that no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Here is a massive example of people consenting to let people make them feel inferior for something that is completely out of their control.
I wish more people would understand that growing old ain't that bad. It's the alternative that really sucks.
by cracky
Date: 2003-07-08 04:15 pm (UTC)unpleasant things: poor sight, poor hearing, poor memory, more aches and pains, slower walking, less ability to keep on dancing without huffing & puffing, more difficulty in getting up off the floor after circle. and watching my own parents fade away.
but all in all i think i'm better off than i was in my teens and twenties and thirties, when i knew there was all this stuph expected of me but i wasn't really sure what, or if i was even capable of it if i happened to find out. knew that there were unwritten rules but didn't know how to figure out what they were.
now i can wear purple and hang out with anyone of any age who will put up with me. it's all good.
...but i wouldn't have picked "atari". i think "betamax" is a better choice.
Re: by cracky
Date: 2003-07-08 06:40 pm (UTC)But then, I also can discuss the Nestle boycott of the mid-1980s...
Anyways. I tend to deal with people as they are, not as they should be according to their demographic profile. :-P
Re: by cracky
Date: 2003-07-09 09:27 am (UTC)(I was in a womens' choir that sang a beautiful "20th Century" style arrangement of that poem,
and it is still one of my favorites)
Re: by cracky
Date: 2003-07-10 09:45 am (UTC)doesn't go and doesn't suit me. ;)
yep, that's me all right.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-08 07:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-07-09 10:20 am (UTC)And, btw, I DO know what Atari is and have played it, and I'm under 25. And I know Betamax too.